Monday, June 20, 2011

Who The Fuck Am I?

Shit. I don’t even know where to start.  This sounded like a good idea on Friday when I thought about it.  Now I’m not sure.  Ok so you guys know who I am.  Married. Kids. Happy.  Confused.  No, not really confused.  I know what team I’m playing for.  It’s just that sometimes I lust for the waterboy instead of the cheerleaders.  I guess I always sorta had an interest in guys bodys.  But I sorta wrote it off as hey-I’m-a-jock-I-see-more-men-naked-than-women and besides if you play sports your gonna be a little fucked up anyways.  First time I did something with a guy was in college.  My best friend.  Drunk. Wrestling around turned into sucking dick. Only happened for a couple minutes and we didn’t cum so I kinda wrote that off as fucked up college stuff. Didn’t do anything with a guy till mid 30s.  Ya I thought about it. But wtf I’m married and spewing out kids.  AND I’M NOT GAY.  Only gay guys have sex with men.  Right?  RIGHT?  Ok so there’s some confusion there and some anger there.  And maybe a little frustration.  But I was like hey I tested the waters in college so I’m good.  No need to do anything more.
But I always kinda wanted more.  I even beat off thinking of guy stuff.  Blow jobs.  Getting em and giving em.  Ya.  I wanted to see what it was like a suck a dick.  But there’s no way in hell it could happen.  I thought about all kinds of ways for it to happen.  But no way could I do this.  Right?  RIGHT??  Then 2 things happened – I started to travel and I found Craig’s List. 
Up next – early experimenting, still chickenshit.

69 comments:

  1. Good start, Scott... Of course, there's no need to answer your questions here, because it's obvious they're rhetorical now. I certainly applaud you for not repressing the side of yourself that wants to j/o with guys or suck dick once in a while. To push that down is to deny yourself of being whole - and part of who you are likes cock; likes to look at it, fondle it, and suck it.
    But the world should face it: ALL men are enamored with dick and the sooner they all can admit it, the better off we'll all be.

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  2. Hey Scott, I'm not gay either, even on Saturday when I had my cock down a guys throat trying to figure out if an air hose would fit there also so I didn't have to remove my cock to let the guy breath. Nothing gay about that now, more of a scientific experiment.

    Yes, I tested the waters in college, and didn't start to mess around with guys for another twenty-two years, so there is no rush, no timeline, but don't do anything if your going to feel guilty about it afterwards. I guess with age, I can rationalize that guilt away, hell I'm not getting any younger.

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  3. Scott,
    I've been a reader on/off for some time. Never posted. Just wasn't ready to be honest. Like you and many of the other married with family/kids readers, I've always found myself in the same situation. Curious what it would be like, but don't identify as gay. Played sports and was in many a locker room so seeing a naked guy was no big deal. Like you've expressed, just curious what it would be like and then of course the struggle with family and life. After reading the second blog though I decided to go for it. Never did anything until recently (early 30s), but had some good experiences with similar guys (had to put the effort in on CL though). I think part of it when jerking with another guy is the male bonding part that is really cool (haven't done anything further and not really looking to). Just my take. Nonetheless, hope you will continue to share your struggle and post/share how to connect with others in the same situation.

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  4. quietman here...

    Here's something controversial to think about... being Gay is a lifestyle choice... having sex with your buds is natural and normal. Let me put it this way, I love my wife and kids and my life... it just so happens part of my life includes sex with other guyrs.

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  5. Your off to a good start Scott. I allways liked to steal a glance at my perceived studs in HS gym classes but was terrified of my homo feelings that I suppressed them in HS and college. Jacked off at least daily thinking of girls and guys. Lead a straight life for the first 16 years of marriage but allways had these strong feeling for good looking studs. Decided at that point, I was going try a little man to man sex. My first experience was getting a great BJ. After doing this for awhile, I decided I had to have my own big cock to play with and blow. Wow, I throughly enjoyed giving a BJ as much as getting one. More later. hal

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  6. Being gay is no more a lifestyle choice than being straight is...think about it...what sex are you attracted to most, half or all the time? That's what you are...you didn't choose it...it's recognizing what's inside of you that counts...and respecting what makes other people tick, too. Kinsey always said there was a range between 100% straight and 100% gay...just rejoice in it.

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  7. quietman here again...

    the lifestyle comment was meant to really analyze the word "gay" and how it is used in todays culture... what i am rejecting is the label not about how one chooses to express their sexuality... i am challenging the word itself. Scott, you and i are more than a word... the word itself strikes fear into most straight guys... note Scott's words "still chickenshit"... he is worried that he wont be himself anymore, he needs to know that having sex with another guy wont change who is he is... Scott needs our positive energy to step forward into new experiences that will expand who he is... not limit him to a word.

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  8. Scott -
    I'd like to ask a question that I don't think I've ever see on your site. I don't know if you're willing to talk about this, but what happens if your wife finds out?
    That's my fear. I'm married with three great kids. I may be interested in guys, but don't think I can risk it.
    Don't you think you're taking a massive risk with possibly losing your family?

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  9. Come on...some of this is just rationalization. Of course it will change who Scott is. Right or wrong, a large part of who we are is the context in which we live. For Scott I suspect if a stanger asked him who he was, husband and father would be right up there. Don't you think there is a price to pay for doing this dance?

    I think for a straight guy, it must be mighty intoxicating to be pursued this way. .There is no equivalent in the straight world for a guy like Scott.I can imagine how flattering it must be. That's not to say the curiousity isn't Scott's...But at some point yes it is indeed a choice to do things that imperil his marriage and everything he's worked for up to this point.

    Is it because you think it's best for him? Really? Any one of you prepared to stand next to him when he talks to his kids if this thing blows up?

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  10. Loving another man's body, or wanting to love another man's body, is as normal as the sunrise and the sunset. The cloud of it all, is denying it. That denial creates the storm within. Respect what your wishes are, and for that, your life will be much better. So will the lives that you interact with.
    Maybe one should say, trust me in saying, your feeling are normal!!!! One day, the books of human sexuality will be rewritten, and that my good men, is long overdue. Enjoy your feelings. Don't deny them. You'll be a better man for the acceptance of what you feel and want.
    bj.
    P.S. My question to you is, how did you feel after your first experience?? Did you feel better for it??????

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  11. Bravo Anon 8:07. The $64,000 question!! The way I see it there are 4 types of people on this site. Guys like you who are curious like Scott and trying to understand. Then there are the predators: guys that really don't give a shit and would be secretly glad (or not so secretly) if this thing blew up. There are guys that I think care about Scott and want what's best for him even if that means warning him to put the brakes on sometimes even if it would be more fun for all the readers if Scott really did something outrageous. Last, are the guys for whom straight is a fetish. The "masculine" ideal is so prized that they really can't control themselves.

    The sad part about the masculine fetish, though, is that people forget what it means to be a man. It is NOT the guys who can chase a ball the fastest or who can jump higher.Or who has the deepest voice It's not the guy with the flatest stomach. A man is someone who is bound by things like honor and duty. Who takes care of the people who depend on him and puts them first. A man has integrity. He does not risk putting his family through something like this because he is simply curious.

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  12. So, you've had some sexual experiences with guys and you fantasize about guys. BFD. You label yourself as straight, but maybe your actual inclination is Bi or Gay. Still not the end of the world.

    Look, a lot of gay men have been married to women, so it is possible to have sex outside of your orientation. However, bisexuality also is really quite common.

    Your blog shows that you clearly have an inclination toward men. I can't tell you what label you really need to give yourself. Only you can do that.

    I guess my question is what scares you about the label of gay or bi? Is it the social stigma? Is it having to live a life with a secret? In some ways labels are arbitrary and don't define us as a whole person. They do, however, mean something about us. What would be the problem with exploring a different label? How would that affect who Scott is as a person?

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  13. Scott- I love ur blog, a lot of times I read, I'm just as interested in reading the comments as I am ur posts. This time I'm all ears bro, and I'm really only interested in what u have to say! This was a great start and I can't wait for the rest, thx for sharing dude!

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  14. yes, to anon. 7.44 pm...it's just a word...and words tend to be very inadequate in describing all that we feel in life...why spend so much time being afraid of part of yourself...because of a word/label or what others may think....as for the married with kids thing...what a great opportunity for education...let your wife and kids know that words and labels are just that and not what life is...once again...life is not a dress rehearsal
    from 6:50

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  15. "What a great opportunity.....let your wife and kids know that words and labels are just that and not what life is"

    Sounds great but don't you think that might have been best done before he entered into a traditional marriage? Shouldn't his wife have had some say? The vows Scott took included promises like "in sickness and in health" and "forsaking all others". You must know them. That is the same covenant so many in the gay community is so determined to embrace. Why do so many gay guys want to encourage Scott to break the vows he took?

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  16. I married at 28 and had sex daily with my wife for a few years... never in a million years thinking I had an attraction to guys. By 35 I started acknowledging an attraction to guys and by 45, all my sexual interests (fantasies) involved men. But I wasn't gay!!! My wife found gay porn on my computer and now, at 48, I am separated and out as a gay man to my wife, three teenagers, parents, siblings and friends and have never been happier.

    Why did my sexuality evolve so? This cannot be explained, by my blogroll has over a dozen 30ish and 40ish men who have followed the same path.

    Scott, I think your attraction to men will continue to increase as you get older. A terrifying thought for a married guy with kids. Eventually, you will have to make some tough decisions. I remained concerned that you will pass on some STD to your wife.

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  17. Does anyone have an opinion about what role the Internet plays in the slightly curious becoming the actively seeking?

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  18. Uh, I am getting the sense that there is an us versus them undercurrent in this thread. Gays = "predators" and "fetishists". Straights = "integrity", "caring" and "understanding". As a gay man, I despise the term "lifestyle choice". I love who I am, but brother, life would have been a hell of a lot easier as a straight man. I chose to come out gay as I couldn't deny who I was. I also didn't want to end up like my married High School Coach who offered to give an undercover cop a blow job in a rest stop on I95. The arrest of which was plastered all over the news and ruined not only his life but his family's as well. My "choice" was to live openly and not deny who I was. It cost me though. It breaks my heart everytime I read about another married man's sexuality struggle. I look at Scott and want what's best for him personally. I know that he has a family and I want what is best for them as well. Where that struggle will lead, I don't know. You can explain away, but things don't go away. No "predator" here Scott. Choose your choices carefully. They will affect you and your family for many years to come.

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  19. I didn't say straight= integrity etc. I said the MASCULINE IDEAL that so many are enamored of here is more about character than physical attributes. It has NOTHING to do with gay vrs straight.

    If you like "real" men, those are the traits that I'd be looking for.

    You do sound like one of the people who have Scott's best interests at heart. If Scott needs to go down this path to be happy I understand. Like you, though, I'd hate to see him end up like your coach.

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  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  21. Labels are okay to define a general group of people, but a LABEL SHOULD NEVER BE THE DEFINITION OF WHO A PERSON IS... end of story.

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  22. Here's the bottom line. Call it what you want - label it how you want. If you are married to or in a relationship with a woman and having sex with men you are at least bisexual. If you crawl in bed every night with a woman but like getting your cock sucked by a man or like sucking a mans cock you are bisexual. Stop trying to rationalize it and call it what it really is. It isn't fucking rocket science.

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  23. Anon 10:33'
    Couldnt agree more. Trying something once or twice is one thing. Wanting to do it over and over, especially when there are potential consequences is different.

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  24. remember guys... it comes down to what Scott decides to do about his desires not we have to say, however good and caring. He must come to peace with the decision... whatever that is... then we, his brothers need to support him even more than now.

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  25. Personally speaking, I'd fly to a neutral place and take Scott out to dinner because I'd REALLY enjoy the opportunity to talk to a guy who feels the same way in a discreet, safe place.

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  26. The only labels I respect are self labels. If Scott calls himself straight, I am not going to argue. We all have the same equipment (well, excluding some chick and her ilk) and we all like to experience orgasms. I call myself mostly straight but I sure can enjoy another man's mouth, cock and ass. I did not let this happen until after my wife of 30 years died so I don't have the infidelity issue. THAT is where I am concerned for Scott.

    DP

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  27. I stumbled on your blog a couple of weeks ago and am really glad. I regret I didn't find it before the cybernannies eliminated what was I suspect was a great body of work. Beneath the offhand, what-the-hell-devil-may-care jock attitude is something important. As the gender-studies and lit-crit crowd tell us, we live in a highly-sexed time when it is very important to people to know about others' sexuality. Nobody seems to know why. It's an unanticipated consequence of sexual liberation. Weirdly, the more that it becomes to be gay, the more important it is for for a lot of guys to establish that they are not gay. As evidenced by the Seinfield disclaimer -- "Not that there's anything WRONG with that." (I don't know how it plays out in Lesbania.)

    Your blog is a conversation that, as far as I can tell, is impossible when straight and gay guys are talking in person. There is acute self-consciousness on everyone's part. And after the little group breaks up, the straight guys may talk to each other about it. Says one straight guy, "What I don't get is why they want a big dick up their ass. It's got to hurt like a son of a bitch." But for an hour or so, he had a chance to ask gay guys whether they like a dick up their ass and if so why, and nobody went anywhere near that question. And nobody took the opportunity to ask other men like having a hard dick in their mouths or the pros and cons of swallowing. Nobody even asks, "What can I do to make my girlfriend want to give head?" What happens is they can all agree that it's really shitty that gays can't get married and it's about goddamn time gays could be out in the military. L'il Scotty's blog could be called "Homo-space, the final frontier." For a lot of men, like me, staying closeted is not about cowardice or courage or fear of going to hell. We want to be full-fledged members of the Fraternity of Man and not consigned to the Gay Auxilliary.

    At any rate, Thank You for doing your blog and for not letting the blog morality vigilantes keep you out. And for whomever Little Scotty is an alter ego, Thank You for not internally shutting him down. One or the other of you works a lot harder at this than the dumb-jock persona lets on. I hope some of your more technically-oriented readers are regularly backing-up Straight Jock Talking 2.

    (Oh, yes. You might consider tracking down the guy who introduced you to your prostate so violently and kick him in the balls. Glands need to be addressed gently.)

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  28. 'We want to be full-fledged members of the Fraternity of Man and not consigned to the Gay Auxilliary.'

    I believe that's what i was talking about earlier...6:50 + 9:04...it's about getting on with YOUR LIFE...not other people's lives.

    So the guys who have at some age identified with the 'straight life' have realized they have cut off part of their being are now wanting to experience that before they become bitter old men...why is that a crime? Maybe their wives want some freedom too?

    I'm a man who has more sex with men than with women..quite frankly the women are turned on by the fact that i have sex with men..and the 'gay' men are turned on by the fact that I have had sex with women.

    I think it comes down to fear.

    The solution to getting over that is communication...and we all have Scott to thank for opening the door...at least on this blog!

    And i'm not here to try and suck your cock, Scott.



    No one is robbing banks here or murdering people...yes, people who are unaware of themselves and others may find the transition hurtful and uncomfortable...but ultimately may realize more about themselves anyway...and about their partners...how enriching can that be!

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  29. me again...that last post kinda got mixed up...but still reads somewhat okay

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  30. 'We want to be full-fledged members of the Fraternity of Man and not consigned to the Gay Auxilliary.

    Scott always has been. That's the problem. If Scott is really who he says he is, keeping this kind of secret, if he continues to pursue his M/M attractions is going to be tough. If Scott's attitudes and descriptions of his background are any indication, coming out or being discovered will be more traumatic than for most. I'm not saying his kids won't love him or the cousins who made fun of his dick won't talk to him BUT things probably won't ever be quite the same. Now, if he was a gay man, if would be worth it. But I don't think Scott is gay. He seems capable of maintaining a satisfying sexual relationship with his wife. Is he bisexual? Probably. Is cock sucking an addiction like heroin? Could be. If a behavior is causing problems in your life but you can't seem to stop the behavior despite understanding the consequences, that, in my mind, qualifies for an addiction. Maybe the addiction is to internet porn, who knows but perhaps it's time Scott talked to someone else about what's really going on.

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  31. One of the most well adjusted men I know is married, has two kids, and has an interest in naked guys. He doesnb't suck, he doesn't fuck, but he sure likes to jack off while looking at gay porn, and he is intrigued by the possibility of getting fucked. And none of this bothers him at all.

    He doesn't feel any need to seek out playmates. He likes it when he has access to porn, but he doesn't miss it when it's not there. He does have a pile of images in his passowrd protected computer.

    His oldest son is 11, on the outer edge of puberty. I asked him how he would react if his son turned out to like guys, too. He answered, "All I want is for him to be happy."

    -Breezyknees

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  32. This above all: to thine own self be true
    And it must follow, as the night the day,
    Thou canst not then be false to any man.
    [Hamlet, Act I, scene 3]

    Scott is on a life-long journey of self-discovery. He has allowed us to travel w/ him. In fact, I'd venture to say that sharing his journey with us has been an essential component of his self-discovery. Such a journey takes courage and involves risk. I for one think Scott has a lot of courage and has done everything he can to mitigate the risk.

    We are all in a never-ending state of "becoming." Don't expect a sudden epiphany, a life altering self-revelation. In fact don't expect anything. Just keep going, keep exploring, keep becoming. There are no easy answers, no short-cuts, no neatly labeled boxes. There's a great deal of value in the journey itself. Just keeping looking for thine own true self. It's the secret to a life well lived.

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  33. Breezyknees,

    Sounds normal to me. Men are great and I understand why men like men. It's when it tumbles over from an attraction in a married man to being compelled,and it sounds like a compulsion to me, to do things that could not only fuck your life up but your family's as well.

    Do you remember a few weeks ago when Scott was out of town and went cruising on CL? He met some stranger in HIS HOME in a dicey neighborhood in a strange city. How incredibly stupid was that? If that was a bad guy, don't you think he would have made Scott as married or closeted in 10seconds? Don't you think he'd know that he could do almost ANYTHING to Scott and he wouldn't report it? He's not street smart enough to play this game. He is remarkably vulnerable and his dick is going to get him in a bunch of troubl. How's he going to explain that to the cousins?

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  34. Scott says he can't be bisexual, because he could or would never have "emotional ties" with a dude.

    So yes he likes his cock sucked and likes to suck cock, likes a dude to shove his tongue up his butt, and loves to spanked and be a leather dude, but He's not bisexual..hehehe.

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  35. I'm getting the feeling there's more of us out there like Scott who really want to admit it. I guess everyone deals with it in different ways. Finding the best way for each of us is the struggle.

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  36. I can't tell you how much I hope this is a literary exercise, with Scotty being a literary device, and I don't get it because this is my first foray into bloggery. Because if Scott's situation is really as it has has been described, Scott is is heading into some extremely rough territory. Getting through it requires some downright thinking and making judgments about relative importance of things.

    First of all is the family thing. Scott is absolutely right to keep cock-interest under wraps and under as much control as he can manage. The 30-something family man who comes out has become a stock character in our national discourse.

    There are no do-overs in parenting. One of our commonest phrases is, "children are resilient," uttered as some stream of really bad shit is raining on them. Coming out while one has children at home will devastate the kids. Ridicule and generally cruel treatment is the kids' lot. "I Have Two Dads" books and the other stuff that out-coming dads do to help the kids adjust is really feel-better stuff for the father. I urge you to keep your family-thing going until the kids are grown (and to stop having more kids). Porn and a very occasional blow job (whether received or, more blessedly, given can help you through.

    While commitment to and the feelings of the wife are something to think about, they are considerably lower on the agenda than the kids. There are a lot of dynamics in any marriage. When a marriage with no children breaks down it just breaks down and the specifics aren't that important. Forever just expires a bit early.

    Modern brain science informs us that some guys who marry in the late teens and early 20s really did not know about the man thing, but plausible deniability ends well before the 30s. So people who marry at around college graduation time and start having kids by the mid-20s deserve a lot of sympathy when one spouse concludes that what is needed in the marital bed is two dicks or two vaginas.

    But those of us were able to shush our inner queer until our 30s have more responsibility to shoulder. By the 30s it's not a matter of not knowing, but of suppressing what we do know. We need to protect our children for as long as we can from the consequences of our own obtuseness. (Especially when Wife and Kids form Exhibit A for proof of straightness.)

    When I figure out how, I'll become something other than anonymous. Until then, thanks for your column.

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  37. This all can't be a new thing of this modern era? I wonder if the private men's club of the victorian age were just a cover for sweaty man sex?

    It's not like we woke up today, realized we had a penis that happened to get hard while thinking of other penis' maybe they all work together and it's like a homing beacon. All the penis' of the world really just want to do is get together and jis with one another. Is that really breaking any vows? If a guy that does this rarely, does he needed to be labeled gay and have his family shun him?

    YES, let's all agree that a boldly function that has a purpose for reproduction, but can't be turned off is something that can be shared among guys in a safe manner. If you don't agree, keep your dick in your pants and go home.

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  38. Wow 9:52
    I married at 32 and have a great wife and 2 of the best kids. I will not do anything to harm them. Sure I have interst in guys and from time to time seriously think about moving it to the next level. Then I come to my senses and decide that all of my feelings and confusion must remain supressed forevermore.

    I made a commitment to my family first even though I think I always knew that I was intersted in guys. It is just too late for me.

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  39. Holy crap, Scott! What a shit-storm you got started here! LOL!! If nothing else, your blog sure as hell gets guys talking, doesn't it? And, one would hope, that's the whole point; to express oneself and get people reading and discussing, and perhaps thinking.

    Weed through the arguements and there are some very insightful comments on this posting.

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  40. Anon at 9:52 Welcome to the family. If you are going to be a regular contributor, give yourself a handle of some sort. I was thinking about what to call myself online when I saw a bottle of Deer Park water on my desk. Now I use DP (though I still make comments anonymously sometimes). I thoroughly agree that the kids are most important. Scott is balancing things but has told us that talking about family is off limits and we respect that. I Do fear anonymous sex and its consequences and I have told that to Scott in our private e-mails. For many years I fantasized and watched gay port during my "exercise". Only after my marriage was over did I ever play with another man.

    DP

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  41. After more than a year of reading Scott's blog, this is one of the most meaningful dialogues that his postings have inspired. So thanks again Scott for getting everyone to think seriously (and sometimes even talk honestly).

    I don't give a fuck what labels you put on yourself, or people put on you. Labels are theoretical, and what you are now talking about is real life. Real life, which is to say having real time sex with real guys, is not the same as talking, or as looking at porn, or as blogging, or as fantasizing. Yes, it does cross a line. I'm saying that not to be a moralistic asshole -- I'm as nonjudgmental a guy as you will ever meet -- but to make sure you understand that you are now in different territory.

    The most important thing is to be careful, really careful, and I'm not just talking about STDs. As a married guy who fantasized for a long time about guys, then started playing around, then got discovered by his wife, had a couple of awful years holding the marriage together only to go through that same cycle again, I know how tempting it can be to play with guys for real. And once you get going, you are amazed, especially if you live around a big city, at how easy it can be. CL and hookups can become an obsession. What is better than being a cool stud and having cool guys lust after your cock? It can at this point in your life feel affirming in a whole different way from anything your sex life with your wife gives you, even if you genuinely, truly, honestly love sex with your wife (which I do, even as I admit how much fun in a whole different way it is to be with a guy).

    What I'm trying to say is that I'm lucky my wife didn't leave me and that my marriage has continued, but it is still touch and go a lot of the time, and if you get active with guys, you are entering a territory of betrayal and secrecy, which are not healthy for a marriage. You begin to justify it or rationalize it in all kinds of ways, but it is still a betrayal, or at least your wife would see it that way if she knew. I wish I could end this comment on a happier note, but the honest truth is that you have two choices: to be active with guys and be doing what your wife would consider a betrayal; or to be frustrated and stay on the fantasy side. Neither is a particularly good choice. The third option -- that you would tell your wife and she'd be cool about it -- I suspect isn't as likely in Scott's situation as it is in mine.

    Scott, good luck, your buds are behind you whatever you do.

    PJ

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  42. I just realized that I wasn't clear at the end of the last posting. I meant that sentence to read:
    The third option -- that you would tell your wife and she'd be cool about it -- I suspect isn't any more likely in Scott's situation as it is in mine.
    In other words, I was trying to say that my wife isn't at all cool about it, and I get a feeling Scott's wife wouldn't be, either.
    PJ

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  43. Hi All,
    I still have a couple of more to read and I will re-read all of what is posted.
    I would just like to add something. I think that Scott is very well balanced. Period!!
    Everyone has a special meal of their own that they enjoy. The same thing goes for sex. Whatever it is, if you enjoy it, that is your meal. It's unlikely that you will ever get rid of that favorite. You just may want to try desert one day.
    There is one thing that we all have in common, the sensation of ejaculation. Can't beat that, can we. Just goes to show that we do have a commonality. Let's enjoy it and be good to one another.
    Have you ever given thought to the idea that if you are good to one person, then you can be good to two, and then three and so forth. Capable and able. I am capable of dealing with it, and I am able to deal with it. I can accept it.
    bj
    p.s. Like a bad penny, I hope to be back.
    Love yourself, like yourself, reward yourself, and reward others. It ain't an easy life.

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  44. I have a question for all the straight married guys and those bi guys out there who haven't fulfilled their other desires. If by chance, your wife for some reason of her own decides to end her relationship with you and you divorce. Would you then be inclined to see what the other side of the fence had to offer? Would you go for that pleasure that you have thought about?
    bj
    bj.

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  45. This is all so timely for me. I am a 32 year old married man with 2 boys, age 12 and 7. For as long as I can remember I have had an attraction to men as well as women. I honestly think that given different messaging as a child, I very much could have been an out and proud gay man. But for whatever reason, the gay stigma caused me to suppress my desires and keep it all internal. I had kids and got married young. I knocked up my high school girlfriend when I was 19 and she was 18. Shortly after we got married and settled down, with baby in tow, she discovered a stash of gay porn that I had hidden at my dad's place. Twelve years later, this cycle has repeated itself over and over, and repeated again yesterday.

    I had a profile on a hookup site and began chatting with and planning a hookup with some guy who it turned out was a friend of my wife's best gay friend (who knows about my m/m attractions, as do most of our close friends). Well long story short, a group of our friends staged an intervention and broke the news to my wife, and we spent all evening yesterday discussing our future. We don't know where we will end up, but we know whatever happens will be painful.

    I have struggled with my m/m attraction for as long as I can remember. I tried treating it as an addiction, as there is certainly a compulsive damn-the-consequences angle to it. But that always seemed to make me more miserable, viewing my m/m attraction as a disease to be treated just gave it more power and control over my life.

    Am I gay? Maybe. But I do not like the consequence that has on my family - my wife and my kids. I'd give anything to avoid that consequence, but yet I can't seem to will away the urge to suck a dick, etc, and at some point I just give in.

    I love my wife with every fiber of my being, yet I continue to do things that I know will hurt her. Am I just selfish? Do I want it all, the straight family life, amazing sex with the person whom I lost my virginity to and have shared the majority of my life with, plus some occasional dick on the side? Yes, if I could have that all without any negative consequences I would take it in a heartbeat. But I can't. These two worlds are incompatible.

    So here I am at the crossroads. On the one hand I can continue my straight life with some satisfaction, but with the yearning for something that I will never be able to have. I've done this for my entire adult life with little success. Maybe I can just try harder?

    Or I can just say fuck it and let my dick determine my life. Perhaps I've done that already. Anyway, if I say I'm gay, I can have all the dick I want, but my life will never be the same. There's no fucking way I can be out an proud, not at this point. To come out publicly would be to shame my wife and my kids and cause everybody around me to question who I really am. The world seems to like to identify people by who they fuck.

    Just the exercise of saying "I'm gay" makes me cringe. It doesn't feel right, it doesn't sit well. For some reason, I'm ok with saying I'm bisexual. It acknowledges my attraction to men, yet also identifies the part of me that loves my wife. Yet, all of my fantasies and my online pursuits are of men. Looking at my browser history, one would easily categorize me as gay. But still, I'M NOT GAY!

    -cont-
    PG

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  46. -cont-
    I don't know where I'm going with this. I feel for you, Scott. For me, pursuing random hookups has been a disaster and could very well be the undoing of my life as I know it. Yet, I don't feel that I would be fulfilled if I continued to try to suppress or ignore my m/m urges. I'm at the point where I'm ready to throw in the towel and quit ignoring/denying/suppressing that side of me. But I feel as if I will always have to anyway. Even if my wife and I split up, I will never be able to enjoy my life, I will always be mostly in the closet and project a straight life. If we don't split up, it will be the same, only any encounters I have will come with the price of knowing that I'm hurting those that I love the most.

    I have seen some of the comments telling you to just keep it in your pants, but I know it's not that simple. Sometimes the need is just too great -- that itch that your wife just can't scratch, not because she won't, but because she can't. The more you ignore that itch, the greater it becomes until you end up doing something stupid just to make it go away. How do you scratch that itch in a safe way? Or how do you just make the itch go away on its own. This is the question that we have to ponder, and if anybody has some suggestions, I'd love to hear it.

    Anyway, thanks, Scott, for being brave enough to put this out there. I know I'm not as brave as you, nor as self aware. I never thought that there was anybody going through anything similar to what I face until I landed on this blog.

    PG

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  47. I think part of Scott's identity problem (sorry Scott) is that he has a dodgy understanding of what bisexuality really means.

    There are very few bisexuals who are equally attracted to both genders to the same degree and in the same way. And there are a hell of a lot of bi guys who are interested in guys *sexually* but not emotionally. They are bisexual, but hetero-romantic.

    I'd probably classify my guy as bisexual, but like Scott, he still identifies as straight. This is despite being fascinated by dick, enjoying gay porn, and sometimes talking to me about men's bodies during sex.

    I don't force the issue though. We both have fun with it, so why bother?

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  48. PG, your comments are right on, especially the one about loving your wife totally, and yet continuing to hurt her. You have described the dilemma eloquently. If you want to talk with another married guy who's been through all of this for a decade now, and who isn't going to bullshit you about there being any simple answers (how I wish there were) and who also is much more comfortable identifying as bisexual than gay, I'm happy to talk. pjpjpjnyc@gmail.com
    PJ

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  49. God, are we writing novels now, man oh man!!!

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  50. Yeah, sorry about that guys. Guess I just have a lot on my mind right now and this seems like a good a place as any to let it all out.

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  51. To the guys in a str8 relationship..

    If u could get all the sex with men you could want...no forbidden fruit no stigma, do u see yourself still wanting/needing to have sex with women? If your primary relationship was with a man would you cheat with women?

    Would the answer to the question help with understanding your chances for making your m/f relationship work?

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  52. As someone who came out in my 20s, (which was 25 years ago) the things and feelings and rationalizations and bargaining and internal battles and hiding and self loathing and shame and confusion and the thrilling yet paralyzingly fearful secret keeping described in these posts are all things I remember vividly experiencing during that time. I didn't marry or have kids to muddy up the waters. But I know the depths of unhappiness I felt until I acknowledged both what I felt and who I was.

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  53. Scott, Thanks for this posting it has really been beneficial. Knowing that there are men out in the world struggeling with sexuality and trying to maintain a quality home life, (living up to the commitments we have already made with a wife and kids)makes this walk a little better.

    I really feel bad for PG as everything seems to have exploded. I wish there was a way to make a personal connection to some of you guys. Being able to talk about our attraction in person would really be helpful. Not in a hook up kind of a way, but just to talk without judgement.
    Sincerely Ed

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  54. PG,

    My advice, this coming from a single guy and wanting everything that you've described (wife, family, etc) please just suppress your desire. I know it's hard, dude (no pun intended) to do that. But you have a good thing. Don't let it go.

    Peace

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  55. PG,
    Just want you to know how proud of you I am. I sure wish that I could make everything better for you. In time, it will get better. I must add, your so called friends who did an intervention. They are not your friends. Not at all. They should have minded their own frigging business.
    I salute you guy. You are someone who a lot of guys would like to know. Be proud of yourself. I wish that I could personnaly give you one big hug!!! You are a man to be admired.
    bj
    p.s. Just want you to know that I will be thinking of you and sending you good thoughts.

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  56. Scott, And who says men have a hard time expressing their feelings?? Thank you for providing a forum for men to say pretty much how they feel about what can be a very difficult subject. Reaading all these comments is quite a learning experience.
    Artful 1

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  57. HOLY
    FUCKING
    SHIT!!!!!

    ok so i just red thru the comments. couple things r obvious. 1 - some of u guys r so much smarter than me its freakin ridiculous 2 - my readers/commenters rule blogland 3 - its going to b easy 2 pic whos invited 2 my xmas party this year lol

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  58. BJ
    I know you mean well but don't be so quick to assume PGs friends are not real friends. Remember they are friends to both he and his wife. They know way more about this couple than we do. It could not have been easy for them to do what they did.

    One thing is clear from all these posts: It must suck to be in these guys' positions. Unless they are total narcissists (or sociopaths) it cannot be easy so walk this kind of tightrope. My heart really does go out to you.

    Despite my heartfelt sympathy, you guys need to be careful. I work with someone who's wife (long story and it was before they met) got AIDS from her "bisexual" husband. That couple struggles daily with the results of her former husband's "affairs". For christ's sake, take care and don't expose your wives to anything. They and your kids really don't deserve that. No matter how painful this is now. It could be infinitely worse

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  59. To anonymous at June 21, 2011 7:19 PM: That is the biggest issue here - more so than being true to yourself. It complete reckless endangerment to the wife. You may as well blindfold her and put her on a busy road. She's will never know what hit her.

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  60. The novel question's a good point. This blog could be fodder for a a novel but I don't think that's why we all check in. Once we're sure our guy's okay, we can drift back to where the straight-jock types and gay men are just farting around and shooting the shit about gayness. But the concern is real. I hope it's worth Scott's while to to wade through all these words.

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  61. Scott - terrific comments - I, like PG, have been attracted to guys all my life - but it took me 29 years of marriage to finally act on it. Had told wife several years ago (with near emotional breakdown) about my urges and she accepted me as bi and asked me not to act on it. After which I went through several years (a decade?) of being miserable to myself and my family - trying to accept who I was but not being able to act. However about a year ago I cracked - was the best thing in my life - finally feel fulfilled totally (no guilt either)- and proud of it- met this really nice gay guy who has become a great friend/lover and guide to the gay world - and I cant go back. Recently told my wife (I don't like being dishonest) what I have been doing and although not happy (even very angry at times) she has agreed to see how/if we can work this out - keeping a marriage together (in name??) and letting me play some to be happy. Her request to me was for me to have as much fun with her as I am having with my friend and to be absolutely safe. I hope I can do it. She also said it liberated her some too- since she is not a highly sexual woman. I still love my wife and she is my best friend but she still does not fill in that need that completes me. I would prefer to stay married - but nevertheless I am prepared to move on if it does not work - either way I will remain truly happy because I am not going back to where I was a year ago.
    A final comment - my wife (as probably most -see Anon 8:38) was most upset that I had not told her what I was doing - and was most worried about STDs as we were still having regular sex up to a few months ago.
    Nevertheless we seem to be getting along much better than for many years before. So there is some hope this could work out.
    Tom from Cleveland

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  62. Anon 8:38

    I agree. That for me is the thing that sometimes makes me want to smack some of these guys. The issue of safety is best dealt with as best I can tell by total avoidance. I heard it described once like this: your wife is sleeping with every sexual partner you have. There are so many things she can get and for lots (even most) the common STDs like gonorrhea are largely asymptomatic until s woman is hospitalized with PID or a tuboovarian abscess. The end result can be sepsis, disseminated gonorrhea and a whole host of sequelea. They have no way of protecting themselves because they have no idea that they are at risk.

    I agree with you Anon. Few here will discuss the ethical considerations. That takes me right back to the masculine/manly traits that are so prized here. How would a man you respect and admire behave? The reckless pursuit of pleasure will be mighty empty if you hurt your kid's mother

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  63. Wow... as a follower of Scott's blog for quite a while, I am still amazed at all of the people that are quick to tell him what HE should be doing, without doing anything themselves. I was getting more and more depressed as I read through all of the comments, so was glad to see that Scott was keeping a good attitude through them all. Keep up the great work Scott (and Scottie), and thanks for sharing what so many of us are thinking! au fan

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  64. Hey Scott just wanted to add a new train of thought to this discussion. I am married with two kids. And I am attracted/aroused by men. The only person that knows this is my Wife. We have been together seventeen years, and I love her more today than yesterday. She knows that I am bi and supports me in my struggle to keep it hidden from the rest of the world to protect my family from the fallout that would happen if I went public. I can never imagine my kids finding out that I am attracted to men. I love the discussions that your blog creates, keep on posting. PG if you need someone to talk to feel free to email me at jloyler2@gmail.com LOVE AND HUGs

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  65. Can we just call you "bisexual" and call it a day?

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  66. I'd like to share something with all of you. I have a friend who told me of the following. A couple met at college. He is gay and she is a lesbian. They are professional people. They are married in name only. They don't live together. They have separate homes and separate partners.They have a business together. I guess everyone thinks that they are a happily married couple. You can take that to the bank. It just goes to show you what people do to protect themselves. In the long run, everything works out.

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  67. PG - perhaps I have been around old hippies from the 60s and mountain men too much but...

    Once the significant other knows about what is happening, there might be a third paradigm to get the mix right that people have not discussed here. In Montana, it is the time honored tradition called the annual fishing trip, spring and fall hunting trips, guy's hiking excursions. Boating. A time away from the wife and family to regroup with men, you both trust, and who are good people. No need to skulk around and do unsafe stuff acting out on the sly and let all that negative energy propel you in an unhealthy direction. If your wife knows that the man or men you go on these occasional trips "into the wilderness" with are people of honor and integrity and that they do not want break up what you both and the kids have together, and are not some sort of diseased pariahs, then all are assured the main relationship remains primary. (You may already know some prospects for this, as they did the intervention.) The number of outings per year can be discussed or managed to both people's comfort level. The man and the woman add the few extra blood tests annually and such, that checking for any STDs requires. (everyone in any relationship should be doing that anyway in my opinion, either way)

    This is a mature middle road, and manages everyones expectations and needs. Not everyone can do it, but very many do.

    I have seen it work beautifully. My mom went on her vacation to cook for a two week long hunting expedition each fall, and came home with half an elk or whole one for our freezer as part of her pay, as the East Coast client folks wanted just the horns. No questions asked. What goes on on the mountain, stayed on the mountain and we kids and anyone else never knew back then. Our neighbor had a motor home and the close gang of buddies would pile in and head off for fishing trips, never caught a single fish to my recollection, and no one ever knew otherwise, but those who had to know. Everyone knew it was a time to go drinking with buddies and shoot the shit and relax. Simple accommodation to the situation on the ground.

    For my dad it was the branding and cattle work in ND every fall, that actually did involve taking the horses and very strenuous work, but some strenuous play as well. So, you could always buy a cooler and become a great outdoorsman! in the Western tradition. I think that the business man or sailor with one in every port worked that way, but I don't know how many of them were honest about their "arrangements" as they should be. I can not comment from the inside of the situation, other than to observe what I saw around me, as I have not been in a long-term relationship with a woman, ever, and moved to the big city to be gay. But this is how it worked in the Western Lifestyle I know, and back before labels were ever attached to such things.

    It is worth considering perhaps. Dunno.

    Your Stimulus Package (Seattle)

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  68. Scott are you bisexual?

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  69. Yo, Scott. This is Jack. I hope you’ve got everything under control and ignore this message so we can get back to our psychotainment. I’m sending this to hedge my bet. I would hate to lose SJT2 . But if you’ve got heavy upheaval going on, maybe SJT has done you all the good that it will. Here are four checkpoints for considering SJT as well as the issues you raise in SJT.
    1. If your family blows up, the most likely spark will be your wife or kids coming across something electronically. Ours is a digital world. Hit the wrong button or bring your office laptop home and, well, you know. And the Internet! There are random chances of the wrong someone stumbling onto a blog. And not-so random chances. Anything mentioned in SJT is one keystroke from anyone. Say someone summons up SJT and reads a non-sexual item that sounds kind of like her friend’s husband. Mrs. Scott gets the message, “This sounds like Scott. Isn’t it a hoot? Lol,” and an attachment. Mrs. Scott doesn’t lol. Nobody lols for a long time (Ask Congressman Weiner how these things happen.)
    2. Do an honest gut check on your drinking and/or other drug use. Psychobabblers talk about drinking as self-medication and inhibition-overrider. What I know is when bad shit comes down it’s usually floating on a lake of alcohol.
    3. Money is the single greatest cause of marital discord. Most married guys with three kids don't have a lot of unearmarked money at hand. Brad Pitt can come up with trysting places whenever he wants. He’s richer than God and has a flexible schedule. Ordinary joes don’t have the option of getting a hotel room for a half hour’s use. And odd charges for anything that show up on the VISA bill can bring your world crashing down.
    4. Time and attention are as important to family life as money. SJT2 seems very off-handed and easy, but it's not. Producing something this that good takes a lot of time and energy. (And I do thank you. I love this blog.) Writing takes time. So does gleaning internet porn. Internet porn puts us in a time warp. We start questing at about 11. In a little while we decide to grab another beer and we glance at the clock. Sweet Christ! It's 2:30 a.m.
    Anyway, the wife is probably aware that something's going on. You're distracted. You're away. She hasn’t put it on the agenda because she's not going to ask the question until she wants to know the answer. She’s in observation mode. In fact, she and some of her friends are probably already on the lookout for another woman on the side. (If your wife is not aware of something amiss, well, that’s not a good sign either, because it means she is really disengaged.)
    SJT gives me the impression that you are kinda gayish -- a little gay, but nothing that can't be managed on the margins. Occasionally wanting to get carnal with a guy is not a problem if you don’t act on it. It would be odd you didn’t seeing a hot stud didn't give you a hard-on every so often. Same-sex sex is now in our cultural mainstream. When a same-sex sex idea start pops up, we can let it finish and then tell ourselves, “But hell, I’ve always been a little queer.” (Emory U. researchers wired men to record the sexual arousal and showed the men gay porn. The more homophobic the men, the hornier gay porn made them. Even after the researchers weeded out the closeted gays.)
    Which brings me to a fifth checkpoint. Does SMT understate your situation; are you really living in quiet desperation and feel like you're disemboweling yourself whenever you have to repress thoughts of a man? If it’s like this, you’re in a whole other ballgame. Please, please find a good psychologist or psychiatrist to help you sort things out in a way that keeps your intentions for your family at the core. And think about pulling the plug on SMT2. Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink is a hellish dilemma.

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